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Talk:Money
Star Trek IV In this movie, some people have taken the line "Don't tell me you do not have money in the 23ed century" as to say that Star Trek has no monetary system. But Kirks response, "Well we don't" still fits, because the Federation uses Credits, a cashless system. :And we know for a fact that at least a part of Starfleet uses latinum. Besides, the Federation makes trade with numerous aliens who will not take credit. :Perhaps Picard was bragging, or trying to make a point. -- Redge | ''Talk'' 11:49, 15 Aug 2004 (CEST) ::"Bolian Currency" is referenced in the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which means not only does the Federation have currency, but possibly different currencies for different planets. However, this might be an archaeological or historical term for pre-Federation currency of Bolarus. But, the Federation could easily be doing trades in GOODS with translated value. The Ferengi may not want to do trade on credit, but they'll take refined metals, dilithium, starship parts, or shield systems. A barter system is not beyond reason - it was used between Earth Nations for a long time. --The Rev 01:52, 15 March 2006 (UTC) Canonicity the first paragraph of this article doesn't seem canon. i'm suggesting its removal in light of facts derived from actual filmed sources. any non-canon info references from a book should not be part of the main article space, but moved to a background section. --Captain Mike K. Bartel 23:07, 13 Sep 2004 (CEST) Orion currency Is "sinic" the way you spell the orion currency?- B-101 14:43, 31 Oct 2004 (CET) : Where does the "sinic" come from? I can find no reference to it in dialogue. -- EtaPiscium 00:42, 30 Nov 2004 (CET) Federation credit Though strictly conjectural, based on the passages cited, it seems likely that the Federation has instituted an economic model that rewards service of humanity. Given that material wealth is irrelevant thanks to replicators, power usage is not irrelevant and is probably constitutes the major focus of the Federation economy. One earns "credits" for the work that they do (Starfleet personnel, for instance, are probably allocated a considerable salary of credits given that they throw their entire lives into the exploration of space and expansion of Federation territory). Others, such as Mr. Sisko, are probably rewarded for the fact that they provide a public dining service, and so on. It is worth noting that this system would indeed render civil lawsuits relatively moot, as the accumulation of 'wealth' is based strictly on what you do for others. --McC 19:04, 19 Feb 2005 (GMT) : I would say you're right. Seems much better than the situation today-Rebelstrike2005 19:08, 19 Feb 2005 (GMT) :: I never understood how the Federation doesn't have currency. It doesn't matter how prosperous a civilization is in this century or the 24th, humans are innately greedy, materialistic, and lazy. It's simply not realistic to assume all humans of the 24th century have happy lives and work with no complaints. There's some people who simply do not want to work. Unless, of course, the Federation has adopted communism and everyone gets the same thing. Only thing that seems to make sense. -- Eriani 18:29, 3 March 2006 (EST) ::Erian, this is a fallacious argumentum ad nauseum; it is not testable or falsifiable. People always gives this dead end "argument" in both debates on communism AND star trek. Its a question that is deeper then mere observation with many factors such as culture , environment, values, etc. This is the fictional society of humans that is displayed in star trek and it has clearly demonstrated that most humans are NOT greedy, materialistic, or lazy and nothing has shown that humans are innately so anymore then humans innately like to eat chocolate. The term "innately" is misleading. it has been shown shown that ambition, dissatisfaction, and disagreements are all present in humanity in the star trek universe but for the most part people are altruistic or at least see the "bigger picture". ::: Depends on whether you and the government agree on how beneficial your actions are. ::::It seems that a substantial portion of this article could/should be moved to Federation credit. -- StAkAr Karnak 14:17, 21 August 2006 (UTC) ::::: This would go side by side with the question about things like the Genesis project. Who decided that that is a service to humanity? It's an experiment, and many people on earth probably regard it as rubbish. I had conversation with George Takei at a convention once about money in Star Trek. --Yes I know this is hearsay-- But he said that in conversations with Gene that the economics of Star Trek is supposed as far advanced from Feudalism as our capitalist system is today. Just as people in feudal times couldn't imagine an economy without a king, so people of the 20th century couldn't image a future economy without money. -- -- 00:45, December 22, 2009 (UTC) Transporter credits I assumed the "transporter credits" Sisko recalled using up as a cadet were not any sort of currency but rather a system designed to limit personal usage of the transporter (which undoubtedly uses a great deal of energy) by cadets (for whom priveledges such as this would probably be limited, being so low in the chain of command). It would therefore make sense a limited number of personal uses of transporters would be allocated to each cadet (perhaps with the opportunity to earn more through good grades, or activities that benefit the Academy). Its all about taxes Has it ever occurred to you that the one thing that all economic systems (including communism) have in common is taxes? What if the Federation was able to somehow eliminate the need to levy taxes altogether: Perhaps through economic investments or other sources of wealth. That would totally change the way the economy works and have a drastic impact on the value of the Federation's currency. I think that perhaps there's nothing so special about the Federation economy except that they have no need to tax. Federation 10:41, 27 March 2006 (UTC) The Measure of a Man I was just watching 'The Measure of a Man', and Picard buys Phillipa Louvois dinner at the end of the episode, and discusses doing so throughout the course of the episode. This could just be a figure of speech, but I don't really buy that. This seems to be a direct contradiction of what Picard tells Lily Sloane in First Contact. --Mrgah 02:34, 21 April 2006 (UTC) Genesis Project Funding? I was watching The Wrath of Khan, and I noticed where, in Dr. Carol Marcus' Project Genesis proposal to the Federation, she mentions "should the Federation fund this project". Is there any sort of money involved in said "funding", or was that just a figure of speech? I think it might be an interesting point to.... point out on the main article. - 09:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC) :agreed. ::Indeed - I find this is a difficult issue. I'm guessing "funding" means they're getting necessary equipment. But who decides these things? Earning Their Keep Kirk actually comments "You've earned your pay for the week" in two episodes - once to Chekov in and once to Scotty in " ". - Adambomb1701 17:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC) :Could just be a figure of speech, like it is today. I've heard it used in a volunteer organization where no one is payed anything. --OuroborosCobra talk 17:56, 1 May 2007 (UTC) We'll always have Paris I just watched that episode, and right at the end Riker, Picard and Troi discuss going to a certain café when they're on Shore Leave on Sarona VIII. Picard says to Troi "...you're buying" after she acknowledges she knows where it is. I'm guessing it's either a figure of speech, or Sarona VIII is an alien planet where they use money. Where do they get it from though? Is any limit of available money to a person connected with rank? Because when people who have no money deal with those who have, there has to be some sort of a system still intact to prevent other currencies from inflation and such. Is it possible that the Federation gives Federation credits to officers, crew when on shore leave? P.S. you beat me to it :)--Starfleet Academy 02:03, July 9, 2011 (UTC) Food ration credits What about the references to food ration credits used several times in Voyager? --MJM 00:18, 12 October 2008 (UTC) :What about them? --OuroborosCobra talk 00:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC) ::You mean these: Replicator rations?– Cleanse 00:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC) Yes, a reference and link should be placed on the page. I don't see them posted on the 'Money' page--MJM 00:26, 12 October 2008 (UTC) :Why should they be? They aren't money. --OuroborosCobra talk 00:27, 12 October 2008 (UTC) I see a reference to transporter credits on the page --MJM 00:42, 12 October 2008 (UTC) :::Perhaps that shouldn't be there either. It's not money if it can only be used for a transporter.--31dot 10:40, 12 October 2008 (UTC) :::: Or perhaps there is a difference between Federation issued "credits" (for whatever use) and the system that was implemented on Voyager as a means to ration its limited resources. --Alan 19:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC) :Is there though? Did Nog ever state it being a form of currency, or rather just something like alloted privileges? --OuroborosCobra talk 20:07, 14 October 2008 (UTC) :::: Though I am pretty sure Nog never said anything about it, Sisko did. Anyway...my comment was more rhetorical than factual, as my point was that Voyager had rations for a very specific reason, they were running/had run out of emergency rations (rf. ), where as the issuance or mention of ever having food rationing on any other ship or station went unseen in any other incarnation of Trek. Like any valuable commodity, they gained value on the ship and were used for gambling, reward and punishment; and comparing replicator/food rations in an resource poor environment and transporter rations in a resource rich environment is not entirely comparing apples to apples, as it were. --Alan 20:18, 14 October 2008 (UTC) Removed I removed: * In the alternate timeline created by Nero's incursion, young James T. Kirk receives a phone call on a Nokia communication device while driving his step father's car. Also, in the Iowa bar where Cadet Uhura and James Kirk meet there is a prominent Budweiser beer display. It is not clear whether or not this indicates the existence of a profit driven corporate economy. It is more probable, based on previously established canon, that familiar brand names are still used in the 23rd century, however product distribution in the 23rd century is no longer driven by the accumulation of profit. ( ) This is currently rife with speculation and definately needs to be heavily refined. --Alan 23:36, 11 May 2009 (UTC) ::Indeed- the existence of Nokia (obviously a product placement, along with a few others I noticed) does not suggest anything about the nature of the economy of the Federation.--31dot 02:38, 12 May 2009 (UTC) Firstborn In "firstborn," Alexander asks Worf for some money to go see the mummified head of Kolor.. did Worf replicate some of the outpost's local money before he beamed down? There must be some kind of rules about only bringing as much as you need for a vacation on a capitalist world, or you'll destabilize it. :Watch the episode. Did you see him do any of that, or any explanation? For all we know, Worf has some of his own Klingon money. --OuroborosCobra talk 04:37, March 24, 2010 (UTC) Medicine Payment It wasn't explained in this article on whether people have to pay to be cured or it is all free? I assume everyone that serves in the Federation gets it for free. But what if you are not part of the federation? If it is all free, then how do they fund the cost of the chemicals they need to acquire from other worlds? I was watching an episode of DS9 and one of Quark's comment was something like, "What do they know about Ferengi sickness? Besides Doctor Bashir does not even charge." So does that mean the Federation also give free treatment to other species? Quark is probably a firm believer in "You get what you pay for." This was probably a commentary on Dr. Bashir's skills as a doctor. Star Trek VI and McCoy McCoy's quote -- "I'd give real money if he'd shut up." -- is better read as he would pay more than a nominal amount of money, jokingly. I don't think it's about the existence of currency in the future. :It may not be, however it is still a valid entry. We can't be certain one way or the other.--31dot 10:16, August 27, 2011 (UTC) Misunderstanding of what Money Is This article and most of the comments on the talk page seem to misunderstand the fundamental concept of money. The short coarse is that a money is something that meets the flowing criteria. # is a medium of exchange; widely accepted in trade for goods and services # has some intrinsic value; backed either by the money it self (commodity money) or the force of government (fiat money, like the US dollar, Euro et al). Both Latinum and the Replicator Rations / Credits fit the bill of commodity money. The rations on voyager had an intrinsic value (there use on the replicator) as well as a use in exchange. They were widely accepted as all the crew had and used them. This is humans, in Star Trek, using money. (albeit post Roddenberry). Money is an emergent Human phenomena. It was not invented by Mr. Money. It naturally occurs in groups of humans all over the world all throughout history. I just find it rather ironic that a society that is stated to not need or use money in the fiction, displays so many money situations. -- 16:45, April 11, 2012 (UTC) :The article reflects the definition of money within Star Trek canon. The comments on this talk page reflect the views of the people writing them. 31dot 16:48, April 11, 2012 (UTC) Two more mentions that could be added *In , the Federation is bidding on the rights to control the Barzan wormhole. *In , Picard mentions to a woman on Risa that he has just purchased a Horga'hn. RS89 (talk) 06:07, September 4, 2012 (UTC) Inconsistencies The lithium miners in "Mudd's Women" are described as overworked and rich. By the way, why should there still be smugglers and con artists like Mudd in a society without money? 16:35, January 18, 2013 (UTC) :A recent webcomic covers this quite nicely to be honest, with the note that "We don't use money" is not the same as "Everything is free." http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2013-01-16 -- sulfur (talk) 17:25, January 18, 2013 (UTC) Concept or item? A lot of the arguments on this page would be solved by simply determining whether money is an item (currency), or a concept. If it's an item, then the only entries that would qualify are things like latinum, isiks, DarSeqmey, leks, anything used as currency, like euros, yuans and dollars are today. If it's a concept, then not only the currency itself, but things like transporter credits and replicator rations count as well. Anything that can be traded for goods or services (or won in a bet) can be considered money. Only a bajoran lita, a Cardassian lek, an isik, or a slip/strip/bar of latinum (or the like) can be considered "currency". 15:24, April 20, 2013 (UTC) Talk Page Not For Discussions I just made a large contribution to this page. It was sumarily deleted and I was told that "the Talk page is not for discussions". The why are all the OTHER discussions here? Why is it called a "TALK" page?Presidentbalut (talk) 01:43, August 26, 2013 (UTC) :Please review MA:TALK; talk pages are only for discussing changes to their associated article. You posted a lengthy commentary- which in the proper forum would be interesting- but this isn't the proper forum. Please review your user talk page where I posted an explanation to you. 31dot (talk) 01:46, August 26, 2013 (UTC) Then kindly remove all the other discussions on the Talk page. Thanks.Presidentbalut (talk) 13:04, August 26, 2013 (UTC) :Most of the other discussion on this page are relevant to changing this article and are not lengthy commentaries. Further, the nature of a wiki is such that some things inevitably get through over the years undetected, and others are dealt with in other ways. I will not further debate this with you on this page, if you have further questions, please use your talk page. As I stated there, you may use your user page to post your thoughts on Star Trek if you wish. I put a link to your user page on your user talk page if you have difficulty finding it. 31dot (talk) 20:19, August 26, 2013 (UTC) Tribble Uhura mentioned federation credits while bartering for the first tribble with Cyrano Jones (10 - 5 - 7) Is there any specific reason this wasn't added to the article? 17:25, July 27, 2014 (UTC) :Yes, because info on credits rather then on money in general belongs on the specific page we have on them. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:07, September 14, 2014 (UTC) Dead link in 'Background' section The link "[http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart2.html The Economy of Star Trek]" in the 'Background' section is now defunct, as Geocities has closed. I've updated the link with the most recently saved Internet Archive version ([http://wayback.archive.org/web/20091027145948/http://www.geocities.com/willbswift/costchart2.html The Economy of Star Trek]) that actually displays the intended original information - rather than a "sorry" or redirect page - so that the referenced material is still available. However, this turns the clock back on the article to Oct. 2009, and unfortunately I do not have the time resources to try & track down a current version of it. Hopefully someone else does, if such a thing even exists. X-ray Delta One @ Talk 22:48, April 26, 2015 (UTC) :I've changed this to use the template, as that's the preferred calling style to the Web Archive. -- sulfur (talk) 00:10, April 27, 2015 (UTC) Removed note I've removed the following note, "This article uses material from and , and Usenet articles by Timo S. Saloniemi." This should not be true, and I don't believe that it is. --Defiant (talk) 14:05, January 30, 2016 (UTC) Pay grade? Shouldn't this note be in a yet-unmade page called "salary" (one is a specific amount of money, the other is the thing itself). --LauraCC (talk) 21:11, September 21, 2016 (UTC) :In that case, where would you put the following note, "''On two occasions later that year, Kirk commented to a subordinate, 'You just earned your pay for the week!' ( )" or even, "In 2285, Leonard McCoy wanted to pay a smuggler to transport him to the ( )"? I personally think that, yet again, you're splitting hairs. --Defiant (talk) 21:34, September 21, 2016 (UTC) :Having looked more into this issue, I've revised my opinion. Just found loads of references to "salary" in Chakoteya's Trek transcripts. Also, I would include the reference from Kirk, but not the ST3 one. --Defiant (talk) 21:43, September 21, 2016 (UTC) Agreed on ST3. In that case, it's a one-time payment, not a regular series of ongoing payments. --LauraCC (talk) 16:32, September 22, 2016 (UTC) Removed note :There's nothing particularly wrong with this note in general, but this was appended to a note about Rishon Uxbridge having been a starving artist, to which it seems completely irrelevant. Seems like someone got on a hobby horse and forgot whether it made sense in context. -- Capricorn (talk) 03:59, November 24, 2017 (UTC)